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thechuck_2112
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 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject: Shame on St. Joe's |
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Todd O'Brien graduated with an economics degree from St. Joseph's, where he had played center. He wanted to use the grad student waiver to earn a master's at UAB, and use up his remaining year of eligibility playing for the Blazers. Hasn't exactly worked out that way.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/ncaa/12/19/todd.obrien/
| Quote: | When you're seven-feet tall, you expect people to ask: "Do you play basketball?" While I still get this question all the time, I'm not sure what to tell them these days. I have a basketball scholarship this season at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. I practice with the team, work out with the team, and dress with the team. But then the games start and I am pinned to the bench, ineligible to play. It's not about grades or discipline or injury. It's more simple -- and more complicated -- than that. My former school, Saint Joseph's in Philadelphia, won't sign a simple form releasing me.
[...]
Relieved that [the athletic director] had taken the news [of my decision to transfer] well, I went to Coach Martelli's office. I told him that my mind had not changed, and that I planned on enrolling in grad school elsewhere. I recall his words vividly: "Regardless of what the rule is I'll never release you. If you're not playing basketball at St. Joe's next year, you won't be playing anywhere." |
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"Psycho was low on talent. Psycho was low on athleticism. Psycho can play on my team any day. Psycho has the biggest heart of any player I have seen."
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redbear18
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Way to be a dick, Phil Martelli |
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Mowch
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Darn those kids who graduate on time and want to move on with their lives.
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KCRedskin
Embedded Secret Canadian Spy, eh?
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, yes, because as we all know, its about the academics...... 
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thechuck_2112
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously, the SI piece by O'Brien presents only one side of the story. And St. Joe's can't really issue a response because of various federal privacy laws about students. But I just don't understand what the upside for refusing to sign his transfer could be, since he would have had to go elsewhere for grad school no matter what (at least if O'Brien is telling the truth about St. Joe's not offering a master's in public administration).
_________________
"Psycho was low on talent. Psycho was low on athleticism. Psycho can play on my team any day. Psycho has the biggest heart of any player I have seen."
--mollautt
"You white people are crazy!" -- Matt Sussman |
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CherryCoke
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| thechuck_2112 wrote: | | Obviously, the SI piece by O'Brien presents only one side of the story. And St. Joe's can't really issue a response because of various federal privacy laws about students. But I just don't understand what the upside for refusing to sign his transfer could be, since he would have had to go elsewhere for grad school no matter what (at least if O'Brien is telling the truth about St. Joe's not offering a master's in public administration). |
I think St. Joe's argument goes something like this: he wasn't going to get a masters, or go anywhere else for a masters, until they cut his playing time. As a result of lower playing time, he is trying to use the grad school exception to get around the eligibility rules.
I still don't see what St. Joe's has to lose by signing it though. |
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thechuck_2112
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| CherryCoke wrote: | | thechuck_2112 wrote: | | Obviously, the SI piece by O'Brien presents only one side of the story. And St. Joe's can't really issue a response because of various federal privacy laws about students. But I just don't understand what the upside for refusing to sign his transfer could be, since he would have had to go elsewhere for grad school no matter what (at least if O'Brien is telling the truth about St. Joe's not offering a master's in public administration). |
I think St. Joe's argument goes something like this: he wasn't going to get a masters, or go anywhere else for a masters, until they cut his playing time. As a result of lower playing time, he is trying to use the grad school exception to get around the eligibility rules.
I still don't see what St. Joe's has to lose by signing it though. |
I don't doubt for a second that academics weren't the #1 thing he had in mind when he wanted to transfer, and that SJU probably had a good argument on that score. But SJU had to know the publicity that would result from refusing to sign off on a guy who had already graduated.
_________________
"Psycho was low on talent. Psycho was low on athleticism. Psycho can play on my team any day. Psycho has the biggest heart of any player I have seen."
--mollautt
"You white people are crazy!" -- Matt Sussman |
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JWags
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| thechuck_2112 wrote: | | CherryCoke wrote: | | thechuck_2112 wrote: | | Obviously, the SI piece by O'Brien presents only one side of the story. And St. Joe's can't really issue a response because of various federal privacy laws about students. But I just don't understand what the upside for refusing to sign his transfer could be, since he would have had to go elsewhere for grad school no matter what (at least if O'Brien is telling the truth about St. Joe's not offering a master's in public administration). |
I think St. Joe's argument goes something like this: he wasn't going to get a masters, or go anywhere else for a masters, until they cut his playing time. As a result of lower playing time, he is trying to use the grad school exception to get around the eligibility rules.
I still don't see what St. Joe's has to lose by signing it though. |
I don't doubt for a second that academics weren't the #1 thing he had in mind when he wanted to transfer, and that SJU probably had a good argument on that score. But SJU had to know the publicity that would result from refusing to sign off on a guy who had already graduated. |
Supposedly he had gotten into trouble last year, suspecting of stealing laptops or something of that nature, and Martelli went to bat for him. So now, him trying to transfer, seemingly for playing time reasons, isn't sitting so well.
That being said, sticking to your guns and refusing to sign the waver has very marginal benefit.
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SportHawks
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Good for St. Joe's for following their policies and standing up for their principles in this case. It appears that most of the issue is with the timing of everything and not necessarily that Phil Martelli was being an a-hole.
This all appears to have taken place over the summer, and after SJU had offered him his scholarship renewal for the next year. He states that he got the scholarship renewal in May and then held on to it and thought things over for some time before even talking with Martelli. That means that he didn't have a conversation with his coach about not returning to school some time in May or June (possibly later)?? All along the coaches are planning on having him back on the team, in some sort of role (they offered him the renewal), and then out of the blue he decides not to return over the summer. How does the staff go about finding another five to replace him when the summer has already started? It is by no means impossible, but finding a player over the summer, especially a viable center is extremely difficult and they could well be rolling the dice on a kid that has academic and/or other risk factors, not to mention they would be rushing the recruiting process.
Had this student had these conversations throughout the previous spring semester and allowed the staff to plan for his graduating or transferring, then I have a feeling giving him the release would be a total non-issue. If the school caved to this student and gave him the release, then any student looking for a release from St. Joe's for the next X years is going to cite this case and say that they are not being treated the same as Todd O'Brien. A lot of college coaches will tell you that they feel that the student-athletes have more leverage than the schools in these type cases.
Don't get me wrong, I do fell bad that this student is losing the opportunity to play his final season of college ball, but he should have a lot of the blame for putting himself in that position. I do applaud St. Joe's for taking the PR hit that they could surely see coming and standing firm on their principles. I really hate to see things like this taken to the Presidential level. Too often SAs just put the threat out there that they will take something to the Presidential level and then the Athletic Department will cave and give the SA what they want.
On a side note, I don't see how Todd O'Brien qualifies for the Graduate transfer exception listed in Bylaw 14.1.9.1 as he clearly had previously transferred schools, which means that he does not meet the requirements of Bylaw 14.5.5.2.10 (b), but that is a discussion for another rant. |
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